Another State of Mind

Interviews and random thoughts...

Oct 30, 2023

I’m a print person - I prefer the smell and feel of a freshly minted magazine over cold sterility of the internet. I like the permanence and commitment of the physical item over the ephemeral nature of publishing online but, I also know its limitations both in reach and how it can feel exclusive and exclusionary. While I still believe in the general mantra “what we do is secret,” I also firmly believe in making things available to as many people as want to be involved in punk. If I had the time to deal with the distribution aspect and the financial means to do so, I would be printing 10,000 copies of Razorblades & Aspirin versus the 700 copies that I currently do - though maybe one day it will happen.

And so, while I’m really working on getting this thing going, I’m going to continue with republishing content from the long sold out copies of Razorblades & Aspirin. I hope you don’t mind. This week we have two interviews - one with actor Brooke Smith about her book Sunday Matinee filled with images from her involvement with the 80s NYHC scene and then another, with Swedish hardcore legends, TOTALITÄR.

Check it out.

BROOKE SMITH

Brooke Smith is an American actress, photographer and author, best known for her roles as Dr. Erica Hahn on the medical drama series Grey's Anatomy, as Sheriff Jane Greene on the horror series Bates Motel, and as Catherine Martin in the 1991 film The Silence of the Lambs. That’s what her Wikipedia page says at least - one thing it leaves out is her early years, hanging out in the Lower East Side as one of the so-called “Warzone Women.” Its thanks to this portion of her life that we have the images that ended up in the book Sunday Matinee released by Radio Raheem last year. Here’s my interview with Brooke which originally appeared in issue 15 of Razorblades & Aspirin.

How did you first come to it? What about it was so attractive to you? What about it to this day, it still stands out as like this moment in time where you still feel, as you state in the intro to the book, it was the most pure thing you were ever involved with.

So I grew up in sort of the suburbs of New York, up near Nyack. Actually, there was a hardcore band in Nyack, Das Damen. And I mean, what can I say? I guess I was like, I hated school, I was terrible at it, really bad, and I smoked a lot of weed and I used to listen to WFMU radio, and first it was... I started with like Clash and Ramones and...But then somehow, I genuinely don’t even know exactly how I knew stuff was happening on the... In the East side, on the East Village, but I guess I just kept walking further that way, and then kind of figured it out. And you know what? I met this guy, Fran, and he sold weed to everybody on the scene. [laughter] So that was a really good way of meeting people.

I would always meet people in his place, and I started going to shows. Before that, I was going to see bands at the Peppermint Lounge and what’s so interesting to me now, is how you recognize your people when you see them. I have kids now, and I have said to my daughters that you feel this strong pull to somebody, and you don’t know what it is, and it could be really anything, it doesn’t have to mean they’re the one or any of that, it’s like you... And so the fact that we... I don’t know if people are gonna be upset that I say this, but it seems that all of us had some kind of childhood trauma. I’ve read Roger’s book and John’s book and Harley’s book, and it’s amazing to read that stuff now because I think we all shared that in a way. So maybe that’s why we were angry. Maybe that’s why we were freaky. I don’t really know. We were just different. And I just know that once I found that scene, I just felt, for the first time, like I was home, like these were my people. People were really honest and direct. They weren’t full of shit. And I just felt like... I guess my family was kind of a WASPY, my dad was alcoholic and we didn’t talk about stuff much. So I think I just liked the honesty and the directness of it.

And there must be some kind of parallel to that whole doing it for ourselves not to get rich and famous, not... Yeah, not for those reasons. There’s a parallel to my... I would say my favorite jobs that I’ve done as an actress because I did this thing called Vanya on 42nd Street, and it was very not mainstream. We rehearsed for free for four years. [chuckle] Just kind of for ourselves, almost like a band. And then it became something, so then we made it into a movie. And I’ve had that, I’ve been lucky enough ‘cause I don’t think... I think it’s very rare and I just think once you have it, you want it. You want the real work. The authenticity.

The focus of this book is around your photography. How did you get into taking pictures? Was it something you were doing before you were going to shows and then doing all the stuff on the Lower East Side and it just kind of was a thing, like I always just take pictures or was it...

I hated school. I think one of the only classes I liked was my photography class. There was a dark room and I got to go in there and print all my own prints and... And because I was uncomfortable with my body and the way I looked, it was a great way to be in the center of the action, but not be the center of the action, you know? I really dig that still. It’s funny ‘cause I just shot Agnostic Front at the Roxy two weeks ago and Roger got me a photo pass so I could be on stage and I shot the whole concert and I just thought, “Oh, my God. This is so hard.”[laughter] Because it’s low-light and fast action and like how the heck did I do that? I don’t even know. I think of all the things I didn’t get.

One of the things I like about the book a lot is, in contrast to a lot of punk photobooks, is that it’s not very band centric, and it’s very much... And for me, what has always made punk and hardcore different, is it’s about the people that are involved at it.

Oh good, I’m so glad. Yeah, I wasn’t sure if people were gonna wanna... I mean, I don’t know what people want, but yeah, I just wanted to kind of show that, honor that world.

What really impressed me about your work is just how intimate it is. I’m going through these photos and I know who some of these people are, but I met them much later in life than this. But you recognize these people immediately…

Yeah, oh, that’s so cool, right? And like, they have no tattoos, [chuckle], or like one or two. And for me, when I was that age like Jimmy, I tried to explain this to my daughter ‘cause she just saw Murphy’s Law. And I was saying Jimmy was like the most famous person I could even imagine. He just seemed like a rockstar to me, like totally just funny and charismatic and authentic and I just thought, wow, and he’s still that guy. It’s kind of amazing.

You mentioned in the book you still have close friendships with many of these people - was this hard to maintain as you got serious about acting? You were in Silence of the Lambs, Grey’s Anatomy, etc. Were you still maintaining those relationships even when you were starting your acting career, or did you kind of step away a little bit?

I did step away a little. Some people... I’m thinking of Olivia and Alexa and a lot of the women, I was just... They were just my friends for life anyway, as they became that. So they were always around. But then, there was this thing called Facebook that showed up. (laughter)

And it was wild to me that you could get on there and find people. And one of the people actually I found, and I’m glad that I did, was Carl from Underdog who is in the book quite a bit, and he was living in Texas and then he died. And what a bummer, but it was so nice to reconnect with him and just, yeah. So in terms of the people I kept in touch with, yeah. And I kept in touch with Richie (Underdog), and not so much Roger (Agnostic Front). I think Roger, that came around with the Facebook thing too. I guess I found a box of photos but yeah I went on Facebook and found everybody and sent them pictures, just, “Check ‘em out.” And people really were responding to them. So then I just... Took me forever, but put them all together.

My understanding is you basically found a bunch of photos at your parent’s house and then...

Yeah, it was... Yeah, clearing out that house, I put a bunch of... I guess I’m a sort of hoarder, not as bad as my parents, but I had this box of photos and no one cared about punk rock, for God’s sakes.

It was just like, okay, just this part of my life, and some friend of mine saw them and was like, “Oh my God. These are amazing. Can I show these to this... “ He used a very big word for me, curator. I was like, “Oh, curator? Okay. Sure.” And next thing you know, I had that show in New York. And that was all sort of... And that’s why I got on Facebook and found everybody and we all got back together.

How did you go from the show to getting involved with Radio Raheem?

It’s funny ‘cause there was a big publisher-type place that said they wanted to do something, but it was so obvious that they really had no idea about anything. And these guys approached me and immediately I knew… these guys are for real, they’re totally. And then Roger said they were too, and I could just tell, and I just thought it would be so silly to go with some big... It just felt... Yeah. So that’s why I stuck with Chris and Rich..

What’s the process working with them like? Do you have complete control of whatever you wanna do or were they involved with organizing the photos? How did that work?

Well, I guess I always envisioned that if I was ever gonna do a book of photography, I’d have some ginormous table somewhere and have all the pictures on them and move them around, kind of thing. But that didn’t happen. First there was a global pandemic and then we’ve all been trapped in our homes, so it was very hard for me to not... To do it online, to do it on the computer. And it took a really long time to figure out the order, to sort of get a flow going. They’ve been great, those guys. They’ve let me do anything, really. And then they have the experience of having done it before, so they can explain things to me too. So yeah, it’s just been like that. And then as it kind of took a shape, I looked at books that I like, I looked at all the hardcore books I’ve seen, Drew Carolyn’s and all the different books. And I don’t like a lot of words. I don’t like a lot of words, and so I just wanted the photos to kind of speak for themselves. So I ended up deciding that. And then I loved the little index in the back. I totally got that from, Fuck You Heroes, the Glen Friedman book. And yeah. So that’s what it was. But again, we’re all... We all have real jobs and it took a little while.

What was the criteria for selection?

The same thing that I was trying to do when I took the photos, was to capture that world. So a lot of the photos that I chose had to do with just the faces of these great people, and then there was... Bad Brains are Bad Brains, and it’s like… have you ever seen a YouTube video that captures it? There’s like none. I mean, there really isn’t one.

I remember talking to Todd Youth once about seeing Bad Brains, he was like, “Oh, you didn’t see great Bad Brains.” And I was like, “But I saw them in ‘89.”

Yeah. That’s pretty good. [chuckle]

He was like, “Yeah, I mean, that was fine.” And I was like, “Really?” [laughter]

Part of me wonders, are we building it up in our minds or was it... It just felt like, “Oh my God.” I just never saw anything like that. I think I probably saw them the first time ‘82, and I don’t think I saw them before that. I know I’ve seen some of those pictures from DC and... HR was just unbelievable...

Were you actually a Warzone woman?

I was. [laughter] I’m on that flyer. You can’t really tell it’s me. I have black hair and it’s profile, but I’m with my... Yeah, I would say that I was. Yeah.

You were on Donahue too, yes?

Yes. I was. Whoo. I sure was. And then Alexa had a fight after the show. I still have that. I have my ticket for Donahue. I just found it. I couldn’t believe it. I was like, Oh my God. And it had all this crazy stuff written on it because of the fight, because basically during the concert, I had just had a falling out with John Bloodclot and so, my girls were all yelling “Harry Krishna” at them, and it was driving them crazy. And then Alexa went up and literally Harley punched her, but I think he had to because she was punching him. But it did get physical and it wasn’t... It was pretty crazy. Yeah. [luaghter] I can’t believe it. Oh my God. It’s all so insane, isn’t it? And now that they’re all grown up, it’s just like, Oh, yeah. Yeah. I had dinner with Harley recently. I mean, and his son, it’s just like, wow.

Its funny to think about these sort of stories and lived experiences, especially as so many of them have been mythologized over the years and so many of these people have been turned into sort of characters - but it’s just your life. But at the same time, there is a reason for the myths… so let me ask this, who was the person you were most terrified of?

Oh, wow. Who was... Oh my God, I know right away. Lazar. She’s in the book. She’s giving the camera the finger in one shot. And she scared me because I would be walking down the street with her, and all of a sudden, you’d be in a fight and you’d be like, “What’s happening? Why are we fighting?” And so I was always trying to say hi to her, make sure we were okay with each other, and then get the fuck away so I didn’t get into a fist fight. She used to make the bridge and tunnel girls take their combat boots off and make them walk back to the train shoeless, stuff like that. I guess she was hazing people, but yes, she scared the hell out of me. Yep. Who else? And then there was gang stuff down there but, one thing that I remember scaring me was becoming aware a couple of times of how violent these friends of mine could be. Like, actually seeing it. Yeah, Harley, John, Harley, Jimmy, there were a lot of... It just scared me. I just remember going like, “Oh, he seemed like this funny sweet guy, and look at him, oi!” [chuckle] But I don’t actually remember really being scared that much down there, I have to say.

Do you think that’s because it was like you were with your friends, right? Your “crew.” Do you feel everyone looked out for each other in general?

Oh yeah, for sure. And I’m sure that’s why I don’t remember being scared ‘cause I always knew... I always say to my kids, we didn’t have cell phones. If I wanted to find Carl or John, I pretty much knew where to go. I’d be like, “Okay, it’s four o’clock on a Tuesday, so I think they’re probably gonna be in the park over here smoking a joint,” and I’d go there. But yeah, I guess it’s that... And we really felt like it was our place too.

We talked earlier about how you moved away from punk as you got into acting - how did that move happen? Your mom was a publicist, yes. Is that what it was?

But she was... She did publicity and she was always in New York. But she was a big time publicist, for sure. And Jonathan Demme (director of Silence of the Lambs) started as a publicist and I was... I had started acting when I was a kid and I was getting sort of my training in the Actors Studio when Silence of the Lambs came along. It wasn’t my mom, but it was somebody who knew me, knew my mom, knew who I was, and just said, oh, I think she’s acting and you should meet her, and so it was definitely nepotism or whatever. It was a contact. And then, that was a pretty great movie. [laughter]

And then I just started, acting. There was a weird thing too that happened to me that kind of put an end on... my brother, my little brother died when I was 18. And it was sudden, it was an accident, a surfing accident. And I was with John and Harley when I found out… I drove the Cro-Mags. I can’t believe it, but I did the math. It was like 10 days after my brother died that I drove those guys to Canada. I mean, I can’t even believe it. Yeah. It’s wild. And I just remember being back at the park after all that and meeting some new kids and telling them about my brother and just thinking, oh, right, I’m done here. I’m done. I don’t know. It just felt like the book was over and I was gonna move into my life and I moved to the Upper West Side. I guess I had already been up there-ish, but I didn’t really go to shows much after that… I did run into Frenchie years later walking around the East Village after I’d been acting. and I have this old napkin where he wrote a poem about me being a star and it was just so sweet. There is that thing of like when I went to the Black N Blue Bowl, this guy grabbed me as I was leaving and he was like... He had cast all over his face and he was like, “Hey, are you Brooke Smith?” And I was like, “Yeah.” And he was like, “We’re really proud of you. Everyone is really proud of you.” And I just thought, oh my God. [laughter] It was so exciting. I was like, “I’m gonna make you proud. Dammit.” It was just really nice.

Tell me a little bit about the trip you took with Cro-Mags to Montreal. That was the first time they went out of town, right?

Yeah. It was. Well, the first time they went out of the country, for sure, and we almost didn’t make the gig because they took apart my entire station wagon apart at the border.

How did they even make it out of the country?

Oh, I... [chuckle] I guess I can say now, I think everybody had ID, it was John who was the issue. And he used someone else’s ID, I guess. And in those days, it was easier to do that kind of thing. But they separated us as soon as we hit the border, and took us all into different rooms and questioned us and then just searched my car. They literally took the seats out of my car, like the giant... They pulled the whole... I didn’t even know the back seat could come out

I just have flashes of being up there. I remember it was Voivod, I guess who played with them. But I think I was like in a daze. It was just such a crazy time. And I remember Harley had these... There was some kind of violence that was gonna happen and he had a tire thumper. See? Just in keeping with your fear. Drove him up there. But it felt like it was almost over then. I remember coming back, we hit the tunnel, the Lincoln Tunnel, and I remember being like, “I am not gonna pay a penny for this tunnel.” (laughter)

Because they were fucking cheap assholes. And I just remember sitting there going like, “Alright guys, cough it up. We need two more quarters,” or whatever. Just really being firm about it.

That’s really funny.

Yeah. I didn’t know what I was doing there. And you know, because let’s face it, I’ll speak for myself. I was completely reckless back then. I really didn’t... I guess there is to a certain extent you have that, you just feel like you’re never gonna die or something. And when I became a mom, I always remembered my mom would always say to me, and I guess it was propaganda, but it worked in some weird way because she would always say, “I know that you’re pragmatic, so whatever happens, you’re gonna make the right decision.” But I just remember kind of telling her years after that, like it’s kind of a miracle I made it through, you know. I was doing drugs, and I was driving around - it was a bit of a reckless time.

Anything else you’d like to add?

I don’t think so. I think right now, it’s just let’s get it printed so it’s out - I just want it to be a love letter to that time and place to those people.

www.sundaymatineebook.com

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TOTALITÄR

I conducted this interview for issue #221 of Maximum Rocknroll. Like many black clad, multiple belt wearing punx of the late 90s & early 00s, I was obsessed with the band. One thing to note, while they state in this 2001 interview that they would probably never play the USA, just two years later they ended up playing two sets at the infamous Philadelphia punk party, Pointless Fest.

Let’s start out with a little band history- when did you start, why did you start, who plays what and why don’t you ever play shows anymore? Also what does the name Totalitar mean?

The band was formed in February 1985 when the three (still remaining) original members chose the name Totalitar and decided to stick to the d-beat stuff we all loved. Under ordinary circumstances the band definitely would have disbanded in 1989 when none of the members were interested in rehearsing anymore, partly due to the fact that we’d moved to different cities. Instead we choose to keep a low profile and do whatever we want for the moment. And live appearances just seem too much for us these days. We’re glad to keep it together to record every second year or so, it’s definitely much better compared to nothing - which is the only real option. Totalitar means totalitarian, we thought the name sounded cool.

Why is it important that all your lyrics be in Swedish, and not in English like so many other European and Swedish hands?

Primarily because it would be silly to try to project meaning into a borrowed and disabled format when not necessary. We’re Swedish - our language is Swedish and our content as a band is Swedish. We live and comment on the society that’s close to us. There’s absolutely no nationalism to that notion - it’s just a matter of using the best tools available to work.

There are Swedish bands that manage to write good lyrics in English, but more often than not - the result is cliche at best.

Are you active in other ways in the punk scene, how? If not, why not?

No, not really, apart from some of us who also play in other bands such as Misgovernment, Brainbombs, Meanwhile, Swinehood and Krigshot. We occasionally visit gigs, read fanzines and buy records, but other than that we’re really not that involved.

How has the scene in Sweden changed since you first started- how has it stayed the same? Do you think these changes are for the better or the worse?

No one of us is deeply involved in the scene anymore - so our perspective is somewhat limited. In one sense the scene is probably much bigger today, but it’s also much more divided into different fractions. When we got involved it wasn’t uncommon that people had the logos of both Discharge and Asta Kask on their jackets. Today it seems the scene is divided into cliques that very rarely mix.

Many more records are released - it used to be much harder for bands to get their stuff out. Fifteen years ago you had to release the records yourself, but today there are many more interesting labels around. Also, there’s a bigger international interest for Swedish hardcore - which makes it much easier for the bands to release records and go on international tours.

Apart from that the scene itself doesn’t seem to have changed that much.

On the split LP with DISCLOSE, the song “Vi Brutaliseras” deals with the topic of neoliberalism and the spread of that philosophy- can you explain what neoliberalism is, why is it important? How do we combat it?

Neo-liberalism is an ideology that’s pervaded most of the world without a trace of democracy. The wave of privatization and deregulation in Sweden and elsewhere has led us to a new society very few people asked for, and very few gain from. The core idea is to pave the way for huge corporations to decide on issues that affect us all. It’s a very undemocratic development.

In Sweden one example is the tendency to privatize the social welfare system - which means the rich will get their own insurances. This means you must have money to pay for social assistance when you need it. Those who can’t afford will be left with a deteriorating service.

On a larger scale the neo-liberal ideology has led to a mad casino style economy, where fictional money is used as tools to make fast earnings, without any consideration of the effects. It’s also given almighty power to a system that can crash economies and local currencies.

But there is resistance forming in all parts of the world - the fight is not over.

There seems to be a very negative focus to your lyrics- that almost say that we’ve the forces we struggle against have already won and that there is no hope. Why is this and do you have any hope that we can resist the dehumanizing nature of modern life?

I think our lyrics reflect the unfairness and brutality that reign in the world today - and in that sense the focus is definitely negative. But I don’t think we’ve said there’s no hope. In that case it would be pointless to show anger - and we could resort to copying the atypical punk themes instead.

Any will to change starts with frustration and anger - and the forming of attack and the discussions about how the so-called globalization affects the world is pointing to a turn.

How has the prison system changed in recent times and why is it important for you to talk about it?

The atmosphere is more and more turning back to ideas of revenge rather than understanding. It’s not only immoral, but also irrational - prisons don’t solve problems any better than an eye-for-an-eye method does in private matters.

The enforcement of longer sentences and an attitude where all the blame is put on individuals instead of looking at crime for what it is - a social phenomenon - is very primitive.

It’s important to talk about it because people are getting hurt for no use whatsoever. We should put more effort into dealing with social problems in a more humane and rational manner.

Are you active in protests/demos/political activism? If not, why not?

Definitely active, but perhaps not in organized politics. We’re not active members in any political organization or taking part in direct action. That doesn’t mean we think there’s anything wrong with that. This is partly due to laziness and also because we’re a bit older and have other priorities in life.

Why is it important that your lyrics have a “political” focus? Are they that way just because they go along with the music that you play or are they that way because these issues are really important to you?

Of course the lyrics are part of the total approach - which is aggressive. But the issues are also important to us. We don’t think of ourselves as a “political band” though it seems the punk scene loves to put that sort of tag on us. The prime reason for us to still record every second year or so is because we have so much fun while doing it. But if we can use the space with something we consider worthwhile at the same time - all the better.

Is there a large Nazi/nationalist problem in Sweden? Does it show up in the punk scene much?

The Swedish punk scene has always been clean of Nazis. But yes, the nazi movement is still here - but one shouldn’t exaggerate - they’re a very tiny minority that stands no real chance in gaining real power. But they create hell and terror for minorities and must constantly be reminded that their activities are not tolerated.

How has the EEC changed Europe/Sweden- Do you think it represents a further Americanization of Europe? How does that Americanization show up in Sweden?

The Americanization of Sweden has less to do with the EU than it has to do with television and popular culture and globalization as such. It’s also a very selective influence - it feels as if it is primarily the rubbish created in the US that ends up here. Jerry Springer and McDonalds - thanks a lot.

Future plans/Other things you want to add/closing comments/when are you coming to the U.S. (please please please!) etc

Thanks a lot for the interview. We doubt we’ll ever make it to the US as a band - though both of us really would like to go. Many thanks to the following people for their support; Ken Sanderson, Judy, Ben and Jeff Alburn/Tom Belldritt.